tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post4200306487752077705..comments2014-09-22T08:05:11.281-07:00Comments on peaceinthebag: The Wine OccupationSuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08603333077083929350noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-28883026442617519222009-07-08T15:15:12.985-07:002009-07-08T15:15:12.985-07:00Just to prevent false assumptions:
I strongly di...Just to prevent false assumptions: <br /><br />I strongly distance myself from the comments made above (other than my own). I take on no responsibility whatsoever for the content of these comments. I am publishing these comments because they display very clearly what is at the core of this conflict. This is the arguments we are dealing with.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08603333077083929350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-6285438837843740422009-07-05T14:29:03.009-07:002009-07-05T14:29:03.009-07:00B"H (With the help of G-d)
Place-names also ...B"H (With the help of G-d)<br /><br />Place-names also reflect anti-Jewish sentiment. "West Bank" is Jordanian illegal occupational term for Judea and Samaria. "Nablus" is Arabic for "Napolis", a name given to Shechem by Hadrian, the Roman emperor who de-Judaised the region. He also re-named Jerusalem to "Alea Capitolina". Yet, Jerusalem we still call Jerusalem. The Jewish people survived written history Sue, we will survive you too. Judea and Samaria are the very Land G-d gave to the Jews and if you read your Bible, you'd know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-44926311793512696922009-07-05T14:28:20.274-07:002009-07-05T14:28:20.274-07:00Sue, let me a bit more detailed. The area of Jude...Sue, let me a bit more detailed. The area of Judea, Samaria and Gaza was intended to be the reconstituted Jewish national home by international law as a result of the San Remo Conference and the League of Nations Mandate decision, 1920-1923 after the area of Transjordan was separated administratively from the Mandate. Starting in 1937, as a result of murderous Arab terror and anti-Jewish pogroms intended as a campaign of ethnically cleansing Jews from hebron, Gaza, Jenin, Nablus, etc., partition was recommended. In 1947, the UN adopted partition but the Arabs as always rejected it, trying to destroy the Jewish state that was to arise. Villages in Gush Etzion, Atarot, Neveh Yaakov, and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem were razed. In 1967, we Jews came back to our territory. Geneva doesn't apply in this instance in a political sense. All Israel has to do is protect humanitarian rights, not establish an Arab Palestinian State.<br /><br />I do not accuse you of antisemitism. I hope all that's the problem is a misunderstanding and lack of full knowledge of the history of the conflict. Ignorance is no crime although it can cause a lot of problems.<br /><br />Arabs live throughout Israel. Jews cannot live in Shiloh, Bet El and Hebron where they founded two kingdoms, a commonwealth and a culture and religion and despite being exiled, constantly returned throughout 1800 years?YMedadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14333122797414935958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-87881927518818431882009-07-05T13:16:32.405-07:002009-07-05T13:16:32.405-07:00Again I am publishing this comment for the interes...Again I am publishing this comment for the interested public to form an opinion of its own.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08603333077083929350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-56586080032349367412009-07-05T12:47:16.886-07:002009-07-05T12:47:16.886-07:00[Quote]Are all critical voices Anti-Semites? Does ...[Quote]Are all critical voices Anti-Semites? Does this mean you can never criticise any person of Jewish faith without automatically becoming an Anti-Semite?[Quote]<br /><br />There is a difference between criticizing certain policies of Israel versus demonizing Israel or holding Israel to standards, which for Israel to live up to would spell out suicide. For example, criticizing Israel for defending herself against continuous missle attacks on kindergartens, hospitals, playgrounds, etc., while failing to criticize Hamas for hiding behind women and children as shields is, at the very least, holding Israel to unrealistic double standards, or, at the very worst, subtle anti-semitism disguised as “criticism of Israel”. <br /><br />[Quote]And does this apply to Jewish critical voices as well? Can you be Jewish and Anti-Semite at the same time?[Quote]<br /><br />ABSOLUTELY. Throughout our history, some of the worst anti-semites were Jews who turned against their own people. For example, during the Spanish Inquisition, “converses” (i.e. Jews who converted to Catholicism) would be the first to turn in their fellow Jews to the Inquisition. The more things change, the more they stay the same and today is no different. For example, one of the founders of ISM (International Solidarity Movement) is Rafael Cohen, a Jew. And then there is Paul Eisen, Norman Finklestein, and many others who are either demonizing (to be distinguished from “criticizing”) Israel or even calling for Israel’s dismantlement.<br /><br /><br />[Quote]And finally: aren´t the Arabs Semites as well?[Quote] Most people associate the word anti-semite with being anti-Jewish, whether against the Jewish people or against the Jewish faith. However, if you want to get hung up on semantics, would anti-Jew make you feel better?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-52648937979476440452009-07-05T07:51:14.754-07:002009-07-05T07:51:14.754-07:00Neither am I understanding nor antisemitic. I will...Neither am I understanding nor antisemitic. I will not comment on the statement above, it speaks for itself. <br /><br /><br />I am publishing it for two reasons:<br /><br />There is no censorship on this blog. I believe in people´s ability to form their own opinion.<br /><br />The commment by David Ha`ivri is very representative for a large group of settlers in the West Bank.<br /><br />Afterthoughts: <br /><br />Are all critical voices Anti-Semites? Does this mean you can never criticise any person of Jewish faith without automatically becoming an Anti-Semite? And does this apply to Jewish critical voices as well? Can you be Jewish and Anti-Semite at the same time? <br />And finally: aren´t the Arabs Semites as well?Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08603333077083929350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-28732123526663453452009-07-05T07:17:14.311-07:002009-07-05T07:17:14.311-07:00Sue,
The term "occupied territories" re...Sue,<br /><br />The term "occupied territories" refers to land that was part of a country and taken over by force by another country. Historically the last independent country that existed on the land west of the Jordan river was the Jewish kingdom that was concurred by the Romans in 73 AD. Jewish soldiers died fighting the imperialist army and survivors of that horrific war were marched away in chains to slavery. The Jewish people never gave up hope to return to this land. The entire Jewish culture revolves around the theme of the holiness of this land and the national aspiration to return. <br /><br />In the past 2000 years while there was no independent Jewish rule on this land, there was also no other country established here. From the time of the Jewish exile no other people had a king or capital centered here. The land has been occupied by an exchange of foreign powers since 73 till 1967 when it finally returned to the hands of its rightful owners. <br /><br />In 1947 the UN suggested a partition plan that would re-establish a Jewish state on parts of this land and also establish a new country for Arabs who had settled in the land. The Arab states and leadership refused to accept this and went to war with the newly formed Jewish State in an attempt to "throw the Jews in the sea". As result of that war the "West Bank" was occupied by Trans-Jordan for 19 years and Gaza strip by Egypt. During the period of Arab occupation no real effort was made to establish a independent "Palestinian State. <br /><br />In short, your claims of illegal activity by Jews and the Israel government are baseless and antisemitic. There is no other people who have more of a historical or legal claim to settle and live on these lands. <br /><br />So, yes, we will continue to plant grape vineyards and raise our families on our historic homeland. <br /><br />Thank you for your understanding.haivrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08497096679274863157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-28634481160166143832009-07-05T03:21:04.014-07:002009-07-05T03:21:04.014-07:00I believe in international law. For those who are ...I believe in international law. For those who are not familiar with it:<br /><br />Paragraph 6 of Art. 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states that:<br /><br />“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”<br /><br />The Hague Convention (IV), Art. 46,Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land states that:<br /><br />"Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.<br />Private property cannot be confiscated."<br /><br />and last but not least, Article 55 of the Hague Regulations states:<br /><br />"The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct."<br /><br />I state that:<br /><br />The Israeli government has been engaged for more than 35 years in the relocation of Israeli nationals to the territories it occupied as a result of the 1967 war through various programs facilitating, supporting, encouraging and enabling the establishment of Israeli settlements in the OPT. It is also a well known fact that the Israeli government is spending large amounts of money each year on subsidies for the settlements.<br />I dare say we are closer to the statement "everything is illegal here" as opposed to YMedad´s "nothing is illegal here".<br /><br />I would also like to express my disappointment about your lack of attention to detail: <br /><br />No, I have not been staying with Christians (except for my team and their approach to Christianity is not entirely mine either, but that is a different story) and yes, I have been referring to wine produced by Christian Palestinians as stated above.<br /><br />While alcohol is prohibited in large parts of the West Bank, it is being produced and served quite publicly in Bethlehem and Ramallah. This of course, is something you can´t know, unless you have been there. I don´t find that all too complicated. <br /><br />Finally, let me reply to the homeland argument with Schlomo Sand (Professor of history at Tel Aviv university) :<br /><br />"Sixty years after its foundation, Israel refuses to accept that it should exist for the sake of its citizens. For almost a quarter of the population, who are not regarded as Jews, this is not their state legally. At the same time, Israel presents itself as the homeland of Jews throughout the world, even if these are no longer persecuted refugees, but the full and equal citizens of other countries." <br /><br />Professor Sand continues: <br /><br />"...Jews worldwide have always tended to form religious communities, usually by conversion; they cannot be said to share an ethnicity derived from a unique origin and displaced over 20 centuries of wandering."<br /><br />Enough said. But thank you for triggering me to reflect and contemplate on these issues again and for giving me the opportunity to comment.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08603333077083929350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3618478823440574826.post-89770403888458996622009-07-04T11:43:04.749-07:002009-07-04T11:43:04.749-07:00nothing is illegal here. Jews are living in their...nothing is illegal here. Jews are living in their homeland and as in years past are growing vineyards and producing wine. "Palestinian wine"? But isn't alcohol prohibited? Oh, yes, there is beer and perhaps you were staying with Christians. Gets complicated.YMedadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14333122797414935958noreply@blogger.com